Ireland and the Socialist Countries
| Date: | January 1986 |
|---|---|
| Organisation: | The Workers' Party |
Contributor:
Info | Seán Garland |
| View: | View Document |
| Discuss: | Comments on this document |
| Subjects: |
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Commentary From The Cedar Lounge Revolution
9th August 2010
This document, Ireland and the Socialist Countries, taken from a speech by Sean Garland in 1986, presents an uncompromising picture of Workers’ Party support for the Soviet bloc. It argues that:
Ireland does not exist and as we well know, cannot exist in isolation from the struggle of the two socio-economic systems, Capitalism and Socialism, in the world today. Irealnd falls within the field of gravitation of these systems with each one having its own specific influence. Up to very recently and in most areas of Irish society still, it has been the conservative, reactionary forces that have directed and aligned Ireland on the side of capitalism.
From there the text suggests that post-war foreign policy in the west was shaped to ‘bleed the Soviet economy dry, to force the Soviet Union to devote valuable and scarce resources to defence’. It argues that the Soviet Union and ‘socialist’ countries were sincere in peace and references proposals by them for disarmament.
But it argues that ‘there can be no neutrals’ in a conflict between Capitalism and Socialism. And it explicitly identifies with ‘National Liberation Struggles’ and posits that without Soviet influence and assistance many would have failed.
Under the heading ‘The Central Question’ it proposes that…
… It is clear that when we talk about Ireland and the socialist countries and our attitude to them we are in fact talking about a good deal more. We are talking about our attitude to the entire revolutionary scene in the world. For us there can be no middle ground in the struggle to abolish capitalism and achieve socialism. It is, and I repeat, essential for us who are living under capitalism that we look beyond what the media in our society report about socialism and the socialist countries.
And goes further, while diverting into an attack on ‘the Trotsky tradition’, and argues for a complete identification with the Socialist Countries.
As a summation of the WP point of view at this time it is useful, however it is striking how relatively late in the day it is. Consider that in the Soviet Union the first measures implemented under Perestroika and Glasnost were coming to the fore. Consider too that the WP although clearly sympathetic to Soviet style Marxism still remained somewhat distinct from it. And it is worth noting that within a few short months disarmament talks would, largely, succeed.
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By: Neues aus den Archiven der radikalen (und nicht so radikalen) Linken « Entdinglichung Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:25:31
[…] The Workers Party (WP): Ireland and the Socialist Countries […]
Reply on the CLR
By: yourcousin Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:49:23
In reply to yourcousin.
You know G, at some point in the future I’ll return to Ireland. I’ll most likely email before hand and see if you want to grab a pint. No doubt the perpetual debate which we engage in will come up and then there will not be the option to simply ignore it. You may say the same thing but sometime, somewhere, I’ll get an answer from you yet.
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By: Garibaldy Sat, 14 Aug 2010 01:17:49
In reply to yourcousin.
Definitely let me know if you’re coming. Wasn’t ignoring you. Things slip down the list of comments and get missed. I’m perfectly happy to admit that the USSR, and indeed the WP, made mistakes, or did things that were wrong. Although we might disagree on exactly what those were to some extent anyway. I think the sending to the gulag was wrong, or but that it does not outweigh the positives of the soldiers who fought against Nazism, plus the other achievements.
As for the suicide waves, or the machinegunning of those who retreated. Nasty and brutal. But the result of desperate times, and not typical of the regime. And it may well have been necessary to defeat the nazis during the most desperate times.
It’s the human consequences of socialism that interest me too. And I don’t think that the negative human consequences of the struggle to build socialism in the USSR and eastern Europe outweighed the positives, and certainly not to such an extent that the whole thing should have been rejected.
And I do return to the point that no-one wants to recreate the regimes that existed there, and especially not the extreme measures that were taken during the various wars. And even if they wanted to, the circumstances that led to them do not exist in modern conditions. But I’m also aware that very often, those faced by the Soviets would have done worse to them had they not taken all the necessary steps to defeat them. I feel the same about the Terror in the French Revolution. I don’t think these things were or are inherent in revolutionary politics. The extent of counter-revolutionary activity from domestic and foreign sources seems to me to be a key determinant. Over on Splintered, I mentioned a book called The Furies by Arno Meyer, about violence in the Russian and French Revolutions. I would pretty much adopt his attitude.
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By: Logan Sat, 14 Aug 2010 08:00:57
If you want to learn about life in North Korea, I would recommend a book called “Nothing to Envy – Real Lives in North Korea” by Barbara Demick.
It is available in DCC public library, and it really shows how messed up the system is there.
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By: andy newman Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:25:07
In reply to Jim Monaghan.
“Given a choice of living in South Korea instead of North Korea, give me the South any time.”
Any time?
Remember that prior to 1987, South Korea was also a harsh military dictatorship where socialists like ourselves would have ben in danger of imprisonment, torture, etc.
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By: The fascination with the Irish "loony left" - Page 8 Fri, 03 Aug 2012 14:16:13
[…] Korea! – Indymedia Ireland And here's a piece on the Worker's Party support for the former USSR: Left Archive: Ireland and the Socialist Countries, taken from a speech by Sean Garland in 1986, Work… Yes, that venerable Irish leftist Sean Garland. We here will have a party when he croaks. And […]
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By: Ed Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:36:50
In reply to The fascination with the Irish "loony left" – Page 8.
Ah, good to see the politics.ie loons are still dipping into this site to rip off its content. A brief glance through the frothing madness of that thread is enough to explain why there’s no traffic in the opposite direction.
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